This page needs to be updated. In RE5 it turns out its not the T-virus but Progenitor.
- eh? But the official english-language RE5 site says Wesker was infected with t-virus...this is the one Birkin gave him in 1998...NOT the virus that was injected into him as a baby-- Forerunner 14:30, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, Forerunner. I think the idea was that up until now mostly everyone (including Wesker for a while) believed that the virus in his body was a modified form of the T-virus. However, in Resident Evil 5, it is revealed in the in-game archive 'Albert Wesker' and in Wesker's conversation with Spencer, that the virus in Wesker's body is really the Progenitor virus.
These reasons include:
1.) Spencer says in his conversation with Wesker that the Wesker children were to be "given birth by the Progenitor virus."
2.) The archive called 'Albert Wesker' says that Wesker received the same virus the other children got from Birkin, someone he first met as an adult (as far as we know), and that he administered it to himself, something that would be hard for him to do if he were a baby.
3.) The virus behaved very similiarly to the Progenitor virus (i.e. all the Wesker children died of it but for Wesker, just like all the aspirants to the Ndipaya throne died of the Progenitor virus but for the King, and both Wesker and the King received "great strength" and vitality due to being extremely rare survivors of their respective viruses.)
4.) The serum that Wesker must continually inject himself with in order to stabilize his viral infection is called 'PG67A/W,' the 'A/W' most likely stands for 'Albert Wesker,' but the 'PG' may stand for 'Progenitor.'
5.) It seems too odd a coincidence that Birkin somehow made a virus that reproduced the Progenitor virus's effects in an infectee when Umbrella seemed to have no breakthroughs in this regard up until then (i.e. a zombie, Tyrant, or Licker is a long way from a true superhuman).
6.) When Wesker hypothesizes in his diary entry in The Umbrella Chroncles that the T-virus affects people differently depending upon their personalities, he wonders what in his personality would have caused him to mutate differently from people like Marcus and Sergei, insinuating that he does not understand why he has remained so relatively human in contrast to them.
7.) Others who have variants of the T-virus in them (i.e. Marcus, Nemesis, etc.) were prone to violent mutation upon being mortally wounded, something that does not seem to happen to Wesker when he is near death in Resident Evil 5. (The worst he gets is increased anger and a reduction of control over his eyes.)
8.) William Birkin would have good reason to lie about the nature of the virus to Wesker. First, it was imperative to Ozwell E. Spencer, from whom Birkin would have received his orders, that Albert remain unaware of Project Wesker, lest Wesker be freed from Spencer's mental control. And second, Wesker would almost certainly not have allowed himself to be injected with the virus if he knew that there was almost no chance that he would survive it (because again survivors of the Progenitor virus are rare in the extreme and none of the other children had survived infection with it). Thus, Birkin probably told Albert that is was a modified strain of the T-virus in order to convince him that it was reasonably safe to use.
So in conclusion: yeah I think it's a retcon, although it does make some sense in retrospect.
P.S. No official source that I know of says directly that Wesker's virus is in fact Progenitor; it is only insinuated that this is the case, leaving the door open to interpretation. Thus it is important that this article be edited but kept, especially because this is one of my favorite articles on this wikia and because it is extremely well-written. --User:Webspidrman 07:48, 20 June 2009
- The RE5 site ITSELF says directly that Wesker injected himself with a t-virus form. He had Progenitor in him already. er...#5 makes little sense...Zombies, Lickers and Tyrants are t-virus creations. Superhuman or above human-average strength is what the virus does. What Spencer was referring to was the virus that was injected into Albert as a CHILD. He would not have been aware of Albert and William's betrayal and Birkin giving him a modified t-virus. Furthermore, Progenitor would have no effect on Wesker if he already had it in his body, all what the Progenitor did to him was an increased intelligence and become one of the few with the ability to become Tyrants - not that he became one anyway. --Forerunner 11:51, 20 June 2009
I hear you and I know what you are saying. But could you kindly tell me where to find the info that Wesker received the Progenitor virus as a child on the RE5 website? --User:Webspidrman 08:02, 20 June 2009
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I don't understand why Wesker would not have had superhuman abilities before dying if he was injected with the Progenitor virus as a child. It seems to me that the Progenitor virus really did give the ancient Ndipaya king "great strength," rather than just increasing his vitality and intelligence. Is it possible that Wesker's great intelligence isn't just due to the fact that he was selected by Spencer because he was exceptionally bright to begin with? Could you please explain your idea further? Thanks. --User:Webspidrman 08:16, 20 June 2009
Sorry, #5 above should read: It seems too odd a coincidence that Birkin somehow made a variant of the T-virus that reproduced the Progenitor virus's effects in an infectee when Umbrella seemed to have no breakthroughs in this regard up until then (i.e. a zombie, Tyrant, or Licker is a long way from a true superhuman). What I was intending to say was that the T-virus was created to be a less lethal version of the Progenitor virus but it was unable to produce superhumans; so it is unlikely that Birkin had made much more progress considering how far off Umbrella was from this goal. --User:Webspidrman 08:33, 20 June 2009
It doesn't matter what the official RE5 site says. In RE5, it is stated as the proginiter virus. In the official site, it said that Chris was taller then Wesker, yet in five, Wesker is five centimeters taller then Chris. So do you really think that the official site should be used in an argument? Trust me, it is the progeniter virus. Wesker did not extensivly mutate, a property of the progeniter virus, not the T-Virus. The Wesker children was not a cloning or artificial birth thingy, it was kidnapping chi8ldren from parents with above-agerage intellect and injected with the progeniter virus. Usually by the means of either a friend telling them, a medical checkup, or by force. So that is why I believe it to be the progeniter virus.AlbertWeskerpwnsChrisRedfield 20:52, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I like this page, it is indeed well written and informative, but it isn't a variant of the T-virus. 5 did prove it came from Progenitor, but it never said that Wesker was injected by Progenitor itself. This virus is a Progenitor variant specifically designed to create superhumans, just like Uroboros, but they both accomplish that goal a bit differently. Wesker was never injected with 2 viruses: Spencer gave Birkin this virus after perfecting it so that Wesker, just like all the other children, would use it and be made superhuman. I like this article, and with that insight, I agree with those who point out it is not a "T" variant, but it shouldn't be redirected to the Progenitor page because its a Progenitor version like Uroboros. I think the page should be renamed and rewritten under the title "Wesker Virus" which is an appropriate name since it was made for the Wesker Children, but this could be conjectural since no official name has been labeled. --Mateo22 14:34, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
- /facepalm. Isn't it written that they were injected with the Progenitor virus as children? Spencer would not give Birkin the same virus Wesker already had in his body. We know he was injected with P as a child, and "t as an adult. You keep mistaking the viruses, this page is on the virus Albert injected himself with to fake his death, for the virus he was injected with as a child, see: "Progenitor virus". Also, ALL mutagenic viruses in the series are the Progenitor virus anyway, just with slight mutations. I don't see why you think Albert would be given the same virus twice, a further injection would be pointless as his body would already be producing the virus anyway. It is never stated anywhere that Spencer gave Birkin the virus either.-- Forerunner 11:52, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
It is not stated anywhere in the game that the progeniter virus was administered to them as a child. Nothing. All it says that the Wesker children were children kidnapped all over the world and administered the progeniter virus. It never states when. In RE5, the Ndpaya tribe used the progeniter virus to choose a king, and those few people who survived got powers, possibly similar to Wesker. The progeniter virus kills off most people it infects, but the T-Virus either turns them into zombies or tyrants, and Wesker is neither. Wesker's Virus killed off all but one Wesker children, which was, of course, Albert. That is a symptom of the progeniter virus, not the tyrant virus. Just use common since. The RE5 site is non-canon. it has many wrong info on it, such as Chris being 6ft 1in, and Wesker being 6ft, when Wesker clearily towers over Chris. I know it is the progeniter virus, or a variant. AlbertWeskerpwnsChrisRedfield 22:24, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
And earlier you stated that the progeniter virus made him smarter, that is incorrect. He was born smart.
lol, I LOVE this arguement. In fact, could it be a less toxic version of T-Virus that makes its effect having nearly the same of the Progeniter?00M00
Wesker never injected himself with the T-virus!!! Spencer simply says he made the children superhuman with Progenitor! Wesker's file says it was an experimental virus! Put two and two together, it was a "P" variant and NOTHING ELSE that Wesker used 2 become superhuman. I'm not mixing anything up, this virus is a Progenitor variant, just like Uroboros, bcuz it uses its own process to make a person with the right genes superhuman. Birkin got it from Spencer and gave it to Wesker, who used it 2 fake his death and become superhuman. THATS IT, NO OTHER VIRUS WAS INVOLVED, THERE WERE NO INJECTIONS 2 HIM WHEN HE WAS A CHILD. The file also points out that they all got the virus injected one way or another and only once. The T-virus was believed 2 be it, but read the file and listen to Spencer in the cutscene, its plainly confirmed!!! --Mateo22 17:17, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
- The cutscene says that the children were "birthed" from the Progenitor virus...so that means that they were injected as children. Progenitor was NEVER an experimental virus, is Flu "experimental"? "t" IS an exprimental virus, as said by Alfred Ashford in 1998. Those with the right genes allows "t" to make them superhuman. IT SAYS NOWHERE THAT BIRKIN GOT THE VIRUS FROM SPENCER...And "t" IS a "P" variant.-- Forerunner 17:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Spencer said "new superior breed of humans given birth by the Progenitor virus". All the Wesker Children were born by regular means, selected because of their parents' intelligence, and given the virus. When Spencer said that, he meant that the superhuman aspect of the Wesker Children were created or born. They weren't actually created overall by the virus. And since he also said Progenitor, that further backs up the fact that this was derived from the original Progenitor, not the T-virus. Plus, it did say that they were given the virus after they were put into their desired educational outputs, meaning Wesker was given it through Birkin while he was with Umbrella, heirgo, while with STARS, so thats the one he used 2 fake his death. And, ok, maybe there is no source that says Birkin got it from Spencer, but Spencer got the virus to Birkin somehow, so maybe he had an employee deliver it to Birkin to give to Wesker or something. --Mateo22 17:53, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
- What I am saying is not about a child or an adult blah blahblah stuffz... I'm talking a bout if it can be a kind of T-Virus that is less mutational and "toxic"....00M00
- What I said above was directed at Forerunner, btw. Mateo22 17:48, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Like I said earlier, it is never implied that he was injected with any virus as a baby. In fact, in the files, it said that the Wesker Children were born from parents with above average intellect, and administered the progenitor virus. But it never states when they were administered, it only states that they were givin' the progenitor virus at some point in their life. The Ndpaya tribe used the Stairway to the Sun to shoose a king. By devouring the flower, one would gain superhuman powers, likely similar to that of Wesker's. But the flower would kill of many people, so not everyone got superhuman powers. That fits with the Virus Wesker was injected with perfectly, because the virus gives you superhuman abilities, and it kills off most people. It is possible that it is a varient of the progenitor virus used specificaly for the Progect Wesker, but it is NOT the T-Virus, or he would have either turned into a Zombir or a Tyrant. And he has no visible mutation's other then his eyes.
So, there has been no further replies about the most recent messages left. Is there still anyone who thinks it's the T-virus? Because if you carefully read what has been said so far, it obviously isn't. I'm just curious why this debate has been put on hold. I'd like it resolved. Mateo22
Very well, I see that this topic will not get anywhere anytime soon since some ppl just don't know how to let go of their useless preference, and I'm not talking about any one person, but those in general who think this is such a mystery. Why not put the pieces of the puzzle into their connecting slots? It isn't that difficult to figure out. This has become quite tiresome, so here is where it reveals it to be what it is: Project Umbrella. That site has provided some information we did not include on here. It confirms that this is a Progenitor variant. The only speculation was that this was ever believed to be a T-virus variant. It isn't. It has the same tendencies as Progenitor and Uroboros: selecting the worthy, it turns them into superhumans and kills the chaff. Project Umbrella confirms the truth. Go there, and type in Wesker Virus, it provides the facts. These facts aren't just me or anyone being biased, it's obvious and plainly revealed in 5. --Mateo22 14:15, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
- Also, why change the image's source?
- Have you seen Birkin's notes on HIS virus? Note that 90% of test subjects survive the virus. Another file states that people with those superior genes that allows them to bond with Progenitor and most P variants says that the chances of having these traits is 1/10 million, with only 30 or so people in the US having it (statistically correct for a nation of 300 million).-- Forerunner 17:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
- Fine, this topic is getting nowhere with all the T-virus and Progenitor confusion, so until Capcom confirms something in an interview or announces a retcon or whatever, I'm done with this argument. I'm content with waiting. Still, why change the source of the image from the site where I got it to the game? For sourcing, isn't it more proper to provide the actual link something was retrieved from? Mateo22 21:05, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Just like how the original resident evil is not considered completly canon, niether is the file about Birkin saying it was the T-Virus. If your thinking about UC, that game is fairly Non-Canon with the exception of the added senarios such as russia. Although it ariginaly sais it had a 90% success rate, Birkin could have been lying to Wesker so he would take the damn thing. Would you take in a virus that has a near 100% death rate? I wouldn't.
Neither P nor T
After studying this subject and researching it thoroughly I am definitely convinced that this experimental virus is NOT the Progenitor, not the T, not the G or any other virus.
Here is why:
The virus is called "experimental virus" Both Progenitor and t-virus were not experimental at that time anymore, they were officially established. Also the abilities and the change of Weskers eyes are effects that arent caused by Progenitor or T-virus. Then there is the fact that he has to control the virus with a serum - which isnt necessary with P or t (as stated already by others in here)
I too think that once Spencer collected those children they were injected with the Progenitor to iniate a selection. 13 of those kids survived and those became the children of the Wesker Plan. Thats what Spencer meant with a superior new breed of humans given birth by the Progenitor-virus.
I believe this experimental virus is a completely new, unknown virus possibly created from Progenitor and/or T-virus but its a whole new virus of its own. Otherwise it wouldnt be called experimental virus but specifically named Progenitor or t-virus in the official RE 5-files.
And that is actually PERFECT for my RE 6-fanfiction bc the origin of that experimental virus plays a significant role with it and I came up with an idea of my own about its origin and since I hate going against canon it would have been a bummer if the origin of that virus would be already known.John Valentine 14:30, December 20, 2010 (UTC)
- Actually, "t" remained experimental throughout the project - new variants were created all the time in the hopes of creating the perfect weapon. For example, only zombies infected with the virus originating from the Arklay Research Facility appeared to use V-ACT out of the many outbreaks of 1998 - infection from Marcus' original variant and the samples Birkin possessed that was indigested by rats did not allow such a process.-- Forerunner 15:01, December 20, 2010 (UTC)
- Sorry but that has no significance to me. Its just window dressing and arguments like that just complicate the matter needlessly. Ofc they kept experimenting with T but that virus had officially been established by name at that time. If it had been some form of the T-virus than it would say in Weskers RE-file "T-Virus" or "new variation of T-Virus" or anything like that. If it would have been T or P Capcom would have mentioned them by name. But they clearly said only "experimental virus" which to me indicates its a virus which hadnt been named yet. To me there is no doubt whatsoever that this was a completely new virus. Ofc its a virus most likely based on T and P (probably even a mixture of both), just like T and G were based on P but still a new virus on its own. And the only thing that can change my mind about that is if Capcom themselves states directly that this was one of the already known viruses (P,T,G,T-V). They didnt call it Progenitor or T-virus for a reason in Weskers file. And this is it.John Valentine 15:51, December 20, 2010 (UTC)John Valentine
- The virus is based on the Progenitor Virus. There is NO room for argument here, it is stated outright. Look here: http://projectumbrella.net/articles/Biohazard-5-Kaitaishinsho ~ "Wesker is one of the subjects who can adapt to the experimental virus based on the Progenitor Virus." Also look here: http://projectumbrella.net/articles/Biohazard-Archives-II ~ "Strangely however, Wesker already had superhuman strength from a modified strain of the t-virus developed by Birkin."
- It was originally believed by Wesker to be a modified strain of the t-Virus developed by Birkin, and it is probably what Birkin believed as well, as it was planned for Wesker to receive the virus through Birkin. Archives II confirms that there was a cover story in order to get Wesker to take the virus without knowing the planned intentions behind his injection. Also, ALL mentions of him being infected with the t-Virus are mistranslations (in the case of Wesker's file in Darkside Chronicles) or just blatant mistakes caused by the sources (such as official English websites) knowing dick all about the plot. --News Bot 20:02, December 20, 2010 (UTC)
- So what? I NEVER said that Wesker didnt think that this had been some form of the t-virus. I also never said that this was virus isnt based on Progenitor. So all of these links that you posted to validate your claims have no meaning to me. I am aware of ALL of this.
- So let me say this again: I believe that the experimantal virus was NEITHER the Progenitor virus NOR the T-virus. It was surely based on Progenitor (which virus isnt?) and maybe even also on the T-virus BUT that experimantal virus is called "experimental virus" and not referred to in Weskers RE 5-file as any form of Progenitor or T because it was an entirely new virus on its own. Based like all of them on Progenitor but still a virus of its own which had not been offiially named yet. hence "experimental virus". And you can argue and post links all you want to me this is not gonna change. RE 5 is the latest installment and the statements in the files from that game therefore stand above all else to me. End of discussion. John Valentine 05:30, December 21, 2010 (UTC)John Valentine
- You're using petty word play to try and validate your statement. I was providing the full background on the virus. It's the Progenitor Virus, the same way the TYPE-A and TYPE-B strains administered to Jessica and Lisa Trevor are the Progenitor Virus, and the same way the "Blob" enemy in Lost In Nightmares is infected with another experimental strain of the Progenitor Virus which Spencer developed while trying to develop an "immortality virus" (which was developed by Alex Wesker but unlike the experimental virus, it IS a different virus). It is not a completely new virus, it is merely another developmental strain and it's directly referred to as the Progenitor Virus in RE5 itself. The whole point of the Wesker Project was to infect the Wesker Children at some point with Progenitor. That was Spencer's entire goal from the very beginning, to use Progenitor to spur evolution on the human race. A prototype strain of Progenitor was developed in order to conduct a "screening process" to filter out the more special of the Wesker Children, that is the only difference between Progenitor and the experimental strain of it. You're confusing mutant strains with completely new viruses. There is a world of difference between the t-Virus, G-Virus, t-Veronica Virus, t+G-Virus and Uroboros Virus in comparison to the Progenitor Virus and its many mutant strains. That's what makes them new and separate viruses. Also saying outright that you're going to ignore official sources and evidence doesn't exactly help your case, particularly with your "I'M RIGHT BY DEFAULT" attitude. Get over yourself and do a little research. "End of discussion".--News Bot 10:10, December 21, 2010 (UTC)